Friendship is Dragons
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Page 131 - The Prophet Speaks
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Newbiespud
7th Jun 2012, 6:00 AM
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Because that's what D&D is about: Finding the railroads put down by the DM and utterly obliterating them in any way you can.
The trick to good DM'ing is to make them think that they are breaking the rails, when, in fact, they were following much smaller, hard to find rails. All according to plan /fingerarch
A good DM should also be able to lay new tracks to cover up a derailment. And they should have alternative routes and parallel tracks lined up, to account for predictable situations.
My group hates leadership. Yet they don't even do well with some kind of simple democracy. It's more like an anarchistic confederation. Or really... they just do whatever. XD
It's like herding cats.
It's like herding cats.
And sometimes it gets frustrating trying to keep them from clawing the wizard's tower and eating the mayor's houseplants, when you'd prefer if they chased a few pests once in a while.
I swear, I have to have a water spray bottle just to keep them in line.
**Adds fish, string, and a laser pointer to his shopping list**
I hate the group I DM, they follow the tracks so well that the idea of going off them is as strange and alien to them as a Cthullu plush doll.
*Hours later*
Smaug: "Bored now."
If the movie has Alyson Hannigan as the voice of Smaug, you heard it first from Ranubis.
Even better. It's Benedict Cumberbatch.
I wonder if Smaug will have his cheekbones...
I wonder if Smaug will have his cheekbones...
Sherlock: " ... Ha. Look at you lot. You're all so vacant. Is it nice not being me? It must be so relaxing."
In Mage we call this "doing research rolls".
Also hahaha Dash's player implying implications.
Also hahaha Dash's player implying implications.
... They had an hour in which the DM fed the player all of the plot exposition and you think there's something to imply about it?
Best. Foreplay. Ever.
Best. Foreplay. Ever.
That's about the extent of my opinion on the situation. Damn its early.
Full marks, Bronymous. I didn't even realize I'd set that one up. Thankfully, it's still better than my collection of cheesy lines for picking up Equestrian princesses.
I've also never had a character die on me, but that could just be because I'm awesome.
I've done both. I like to occasionally throw a night time encounter where the party is half dressed and barely awake, trying to scrable for a weapon and defend against whatever it is attacking.
Then there was the time the party slept in Castle Ravenloft. Yeah, they only did that twice...
Then there was the time the party slept in Castle Ravenloft. Yeah, they only did that twice...
Well, Ranubis, if it's good enough for when it comes to exploding...
We're playing Kingmaker, so a lot of it is wilderness exploration, so we do a LOT of camping. And we get attacked sometimes. But being a ranger, I was very strict on setting watches from day 1.
That and I now our GM's a devious bastard.
That and I now our GM's a devious bastard.
To be honest, that is because I'm married to him... And I encourage the devious bastard tendencies...
First favorite moment being when I'd set up a secure shelter in a shallow cave, dozens of undead decided to ambush us from outside, and I wound up having to save the party with magic missile spam from behind the barrier.
Second favorite moment was from that inevitably leading to me picking the Mage's Mansion spell, and once the DM told me I got to decide how it looked inside, I looked forward to describing the new mansion every time we used it.
Well it IS a tall thing.
In my most recent game (cut short when I moved) I had one character a knight in service to one of the dukes secretly supporting the resistance to the stereotypical evil emperor, and another an assassin that had previously served the emperor. That made it pretty easy to justify handing exposition about either side of the conflict to one player or the other. The third character was a wizard, which also let me pass them occult knowledge.
In my most recent game (cut short when I moved) I had one character a knight in service to one of the dukes secretly supporting the resistance to the stereotypical evil emperor, and another an assassin that had previously served the emperor. That made it pretty easy to justify handing exposition about either side of the conflict to one player or the other. The third character was a wizard, which also let me pass them occult knowledge.
Dear whoever's username is 'Colin.'
I demand you stop using a real name and comment using a pseudonym like normal people who post comments about a My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic screencap comic in a tabletop rpg setting.
AND IF YOU DON'T THEN I'LL...! mutter disapprovingly and look like this ಠ_ಠ
I demand you stop using a real name and comment using a pseudonym like normal people who post comments about a My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic screencap comic in a tabletop rpg setting.
AND IF YOU DON'T THEN I'LL...! mutter disapprovingly and look like this ಠ_ಠ
What if his pseudonym is Colin? Colin is a perfectly decent psuedonym. Sexy people like Colin Farrell are named Colin.
(Do not look behind the curtain at the Colin writing this.)
(Do not look behind the curtain at the Colin writing this.)
And the other involves a man loving a fictional character.
Sounds like par for the course on the internet.
If the pairing can be found,
You must ship it,
If that couple is unsound,
Still you ship it.
They'll both just come around,
So just ship it.
You must ship it,
If that couple is unsound,
Still you ship it.
They'll both just come around,
So just ship it.
I quickly gave up the notion of 'rails' and 'adventure hooks'. I use 'bait' instead. It's great to figure out what your players want and make it clear that they have tons of options... But one path leads to bait that the whole party wants. It works better if you're using emotional triggers, like killing a hated enemy or saving a beloved NPC, or at the very least some wondrous artifact from a forgotten age that has the power to control dragons or a flying castle equipped with orbital death-laser attached. But, if you must, just a boat-load of gold can work too - it's just nowhere near as good as something specific. Great bait makes the players want to go where you want them to go a lot more than they want to derail things.
It also helps to plan what obstacles and events the players will face, then leave it completely open how they overcome them. For example, the party once wanted to assassinate a powerful leader of a thieves guild in her private, well-guarded office. The only thing my plans required was them getting to that office (and even that could be easily worked around if they failed), it didn't matter how they did it.
They decided to impersonate a fake company they called, "Viking Cleaning and Asbestos Removal". Their slogan? "Don't let your Asbestos turn into an as-worst-os." =)
It was awesome, it got them what they wanted and it didn't throw off the session at all. Players want to be creative, it's a good thing. Be not afraid.
It also helps to plan what obstacles and events the players will face, then leave it completely open how they overcome them. For example, the party once wanted to assassinate a powerful leader of a thieves guild in her private, well-guarded office. The only thing my plans required was them getting to that office (and even that could be easily worked around if they failed), it didn't matter how they did it.
They decided to impersonate a fake company they called, "Viking Cleaning and Asbestos Removal". Their slogan? "Don't let your Asbestos turn into an as-worst-os." =)
It was awesome, it got them what they wanted and it didn't throw off the session at all. Players want to be creative, it's a good thing. Be not afraid.
We kick down the door, kill everything, kill her, get the gold, kill the guy who gave us the gold, take over.
I am not above sacrificing Reward just to watch the DM squirm a little more.
See, we did that once. Sneaked in through a secret door, killed everything, got the gold, sneaked out. Really unusual for us, but we particularly didn't like these people.
And he expected it, because we knew we hated these guys enough to just murder them. It was just more of his "bait." And he made us pay for it big time down the line.
(Stairc, I believe I'm talking about taking out the Silverfern HQ in Aurixan.)
It's all about playing Chess with the DM and then beating him at Tic-Tac-Toe before he realizes the game has changed.
One, metagaming him doesn't work, because he's doing the exact same freaking thing - playing my expectations of him against me whenever I'm in a metagaming mood. He's been playing the Chess-slash-TicTacToe game much longer than I have. I usually lose.
Two... this whole concept of laying down "bait?" He's really good at that. We'll gladly get on the rails when there's what we really want is at our destination - even if we argue about it for a half hour before boarding the train.
Really, Bronymous... As much as we love to demonize and stereotype all DMs, the problem is that this one is actually really good at doing the JOB of the DM: engaging the players.
(Sorry, I never been a DM but I played in groups where the one guy has to screw it up for everybody, so I kind of gotten sick of Derailing just to be an ass.)
I run a D&D game every Sunday that lasts about 6-8 hours depending on how much time we spend goofing off. I spend about 6 hours on Saturday setting it all up, 3 hours for the way it's supposed to play out, and 3 hours plotting out alternate ways it could go down.
To give you an idea about how detail oriented I am, one of my players had his character picked up a bottle of peach schnaps about a year ago IRL time in an abandoned bar in a haunted town. In the year IRL/month game time since it was never opened or drunk. I turned that randomly picked up bottle into a plot point that the fate of the world hung on.
The moral of the story is give the DM a chance to blow your mind and he just might do it.
It's whatever, bro. Game's a game, we play how we like.
The funny thing in Bronymous' first attempt to derail the above scenario that I posted was... That was the default option he suggested. Charge in, kick down the door and kill her then possibly stab the nasty guy manipulating you in the back is the classic adventure. By trying to wreck the plans, Bronumous came up with the easiest possible scenario to DM. :)
I've found that so long as you don't try to anticipate what players will do (with the exception of certain Silverfern adventures that Alex mentions, where it's all about trying to outguess a manipulative enemy) but rather provide a situation with characters that behave realistically... There's just nothing to derail in the first place. The players are in the driver's seat, the only people they can derail are themselves.
Let's say Newbie's group had done the exact opposite and offered to serve the Silverferns they hated. I know how the organization works and how the higher-ups have a grudge against the players but also like turning their enemies into advantages. They would send an insultingly low-rank official to bargain with the players and offer a humiliating deal that is win-win for them. If the players refuse in anger, their plans progress as usual. If the players accept, the Silverferns get a group of powerful people who slay monsters for a living working on their side of the fence. Then they would send the players on some task to get them to prove themselves - something distasteful, likely asking them to betray a former ally...
And once more, if they players change their minds again - things work out. If the players stick with this new alliance, a brand new interesting adventure unfolds. If the players go on a rampage and kill everything in site, they will be declared national enemies and will be forced to fight against overwhelming odds or else flee to a safe haven in another land that will be granted conditionally, and only conditionally upon a trial of virtue administered by a legendary paladin's crippled mentor or else they might join the forces of a Desert Lord, where such butchery is valued.
You can surprise me all you like, I enjoy it. But the only ones you can derail are yourselves. =)
However, the way you make it sound, it seems you would have to be ready for any possible outcome, any possible choice, at any possible time- and that falls back on the characteristic flaw of many, if not the majority, of DMs- improvising. So if you're just awesome at that, if you can transition from any one idea of what's going on into another seamlessly, then I believe you when you say you can't be derailed.
But what I'm talking about is those moments when there isn't a seamless transition, when that player does something so out there that you have to stop and think "ok, well then what would happen". The reward I'm looking for is seeing the DM break his game face, step back and work around what I'm doing, so I know I'm making an impact.
And also, to clear up any misunderstanding, this is never my original goal in a game. I don't try and break and derail the campaign every chance I get. It's only when challenges like that are issued, when the DM begins to think too highly of himself, or begins to treat the party like his personal playthings, to use and discard on a whim. That is when I decide to take the fight to him.
The great thing is that you don't need to be prepared for every possible thing as long as you design things adequately. You design events and obstacles that have 2 or three possible outcomes, then plan for those. For example, once I know the players want to take out that guild leader (and they definitely did) - I can plan obstacles to them taking her out. Then I can plan for a situation where they accomplish their goal or fail in their attempt. HOW this happens doesn't really matter in my plans, whether they kick down the door or impersonate an asbestos-removal service. However, how they do something will both have ripple-effects (a frontal assault will mean the city guards think you're criminals, something you'll have to deal with or rectify) or else allow hefty extra advantages. I love it when players bypass something terrible with clever thinking.
For example, Newbie's group once went to a hell-plane after retrieving a sword-that-was-the-prison-of-a-greater-demon (ask him about how that happened sometime) that banished their friend's soul to hell. The event: "Break out Ian's soul from Purgatory, the soul-jail". If they succeed, they can resurrect him. If they fail, they'll either run out of the hellscape or end up in purgatory themselves and a new campaign arc will begin with a devil overlord forcing them to work for him (which I can start planning on next week, once I know if that's what happened).
They did succeed... And they did it in an absolutely awesome way. The souls were kept in prison by the power of an infernal seal housed within the jail. The players asked a disgruntled guard how it could be broken and I answered, "It could only be shattered by some incredible entity, like an arch-devil or greater demon"
At that point the players' eyes electrified. "Wait..." Newbie said, "Don't we have a Greater Demon in the sword?"
Epic. They decided to kill themselves and voluntarily enter the jail as souls, bringing their sword with them hidden in a bag of self-holding as souls have physical form in the astral sea and can wield weapons, then plunged the sword into the seal - shattering it and freeing EVERY SOUL IN PURGATORY.
The tidal wave of souls ran rampant through the city, shattering it as they leaped free as the rescued player rallied a cry of glory... And thus did the players devastate the entire planar city of Char.
I sure didn't plan for that, but I sure didn't have to. And it was epic... And didn't derail a thing. =)
For example, Newbie's group once went to a hell-plane after retrieving a sword-that-was-the-prison-of-a-greater-demon (ask him about how that happened sometime) that banished their friend's soul to hell. The event: "Break out Ian's soul from Purgatory, the soul-jail". If they succeed, they can resurrect him. If they fail, they'll either run out of the hellscape or end up in purgatory themselves and a new campaign arc will begin with a devil overlord forcing them to work for him (which I can start planning on next week, once I know if that's what happened).
They did succeed... And they did it in an absolutely awesome way. The souls were kept in prison by the power of an infernal seal housed within the jail. The players asked a disgruntled guard how it could be broken and I answered, "It could only be shattered by some incredible entity, like an arch-devil or greater demon"
At that point the players' eyes electrified. "Wait..." Newbie said, "Don't we have a Greater Demon in the sword?"
Epic. They decided to kill themselves and voluntarily enter the jail as souls, bringing their sword with them hidden in a bag of self-holding as souls have physical form in the astral sea and can wield weapons, then plunged the sword into the seal - shattering it and freeing EVERY SOUL IN PURGATORY.
The tidal wave of souls ran rampant through the city, shattering it as they leaped free as the rescued player rallied a cry of glory... And thus did the players devastate the entire planar city of Char.
I sure didn't plan for that, but I sure didn't have to. And it was epic... And didn't derail a thing. =)
Want the players to go to the next town? Have a random bard in another town spread slanderous lies against them, ruining their reputation.
Want to direct the players towards finding a secret in the dark alleys of a town? Have one of them be pickpocketed in a crowd and get them to play detective on finding him.
Need to ensure the PCs wont be merciful to a baddie? Have them break or ruin some of their equipment.
But that's really more of a long term goal, and hey, if she's not willing to come back, necromancy is always a perfectly viable option.
Simpler plan: Buy 30 barrels of pitch, cart them all up to the rooftops, then light them on fire and throw them at the building. Worked like a charm for us.
^ I put in my name and it generated some interesting character names for me so I wouldn't have to wrack my head for them.
Also I didn't submit character sheets but I submitted the ideas I had for one pony character from each race, so I could be whichever race we lack.
I can't decide on the name though- Flashburn (alluding to his special talent and current job as firefighter) or Flashpoint (alluding to marksmanship and a general sense of military precision- he served in the Pegasus Corps).
Though after I submitted my application, it occurred to me that my character's special talent, she would have to be godlike at bluffing.
Have fun trying to figure out what her special talent is now.
in my experiance reverse pshycolagy is often the best way to get the checters to do what I want them to do, unfortanatly they cant tell the difference between when im trying to trick them and when im trying to not trick them, for example, they killied a level twenty priest in his sleep by dropping a buiding on him, the reason why? he had a gotee. *sigh*
One campaign I was playing in started off as a typical wondering mercenaries setup. That is, until we took on what was intended to be some brief work dealing with nomadic raiders who were terrorizing the countryside.
First mission, we find an outlying farm, everyone dead except one young girl who the raiders were taking turns with. Somehow, we mutually agreed without saying a word to spend pretty much all our proceeds from that mission (minus the money to set the girl up as an apprentice in the nearby town) to start raising an army and spent the rest of the campaign more or less wiping out the nomadic culture.
And this was all from what was intended to be just a stand alone encounter. The GM was more surprised then we were about the path the campaign had taken, and we all pretty much agreed that it was one of the best campaigns we had ever been in.
Moral of the story: Never let the rails get in the way of something more interesting.
First mission, we find an outlying farm, everyone dead except one young girl who the raiders were taking turns with. Somehow, we mutually agreed without saying a word to spend pretty much all our proceeds from that mission (minus the money to set the girl up as an apprentice in the nearby town) to start raising an army and spent the rest of the campaign more or less wiping out the nomadic culture.
And this was all from what was intended to be just a stand alone encounter. The GM was more surprised then we were about the path the campaign had taken, and we all pretty much agreed that it was one of the best campaigns we had ever been in.
Moral of the story: Never let the rails get in the way of something more interesting.
This meant that I could give him a smug attitude, with him usually knowing the answers and treating it as obvious (If you've ever played The World Ends With You, he was heavily based off Joshua). This also made for fun when I handed it off to player control. I was able to downright spoil plenty of things, telling them to the player... with the catch that when he reveals any information, he has to keep up the charade, and can't just say he got it from divine providence. Sadly, the player just tended to stay quiet rather than figure out how to give the answer in a way that doesn't break the masquerade.
I just tried this idea in my current FR game. Gave the player a description of a famous thief to tell the party about. Worked like a charm.
Just kidding, I love my players!
I understand that Fluttershy's player is just roleplaying her cowardly and largely ineffective druid, but all I can think of is how much I HATE characters who don't jump at the call to adventure. I really have no patience for those who pick something other than adventure as their priority.
I mean, sure, if the game naturally evolves to the point where the high level PCs have found themselves with political responsibilities and what not, then sure I can see not delving into dungeons on a regular basis, but if a low level character isn't at least a little bold and reckless they shouldn't be a PC!
I mean, sure, if the game naturally evolves to the point where the high level PCs have found themselves with political responsibilities and what not, then sure I can see not delving into dungeons on a regular basis, but if a low level character isn't at least a little bold and reckless they shouldn't be a PC!
I wonder about that myself! Players that just play it way too safe and won't invest a little risk for the reward.
(Oh wait.)
Anyway, without further ado, here are our adventurers!
Karilyn
Ranubis
Dragyphon
Anthony
I'll be emailing you as well for confirmation. Enjoy.