Page 860 - Bullyin' Operator

24th Jan 2017, 6:00 AM
Bullyin' Operator
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Newbiespud 24th Jan 2017, 6:00 AM edit delete
Newbiespud
Man, I forgot how adorable the young versions of the Mane Six were. Or maybe, since this was Season 1, I was still in "Okay this is surprisingly good but still sugary anathema to my manly soul" binge-watching mode at the time and I've just learned to appreciate cute things more since then.

57 Comments:

Cyborg7221 24th Jan 2017, 6:25 AM edit delete reply
If I'm recalling correctly, RD justified her status as the Element of Loyalty by saying that, to her, being Chaotic Evil just meant doing whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted. I think that the same logic can apply here, too.
RandomRex6 24th Jan 2017, 6:49 AM edit delete reply
In retrospect, isn't that more Chaotic Neutral?
Jannard 24th Jan 2017, 8:16 AM edit delete reply
It's *totally* Chaotic Neutral... But there's no CN in 4th Ed. A rather dumb choice in my opinion (might as well have gone all the way and remove the alignment system, which is already problematic, especially since players love using it but still argue against it's minutiae every step of the way), but in Rainbow's player case I'd say "unaliged", still pretty much free (not to an extreme) while still being able to justify making good for good's sake (something a CE would rarely, if ever, do).
Freelance 24th Jan 2017, 12:55 PM edit delete reply
Hey, don't forget,
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvenEvilHasLovedOnes
Besides, it could be that RD ranks more on the chaotic than evil on that spectrum, or it could be that dealing with the bullies regularly is what made her evil--the anger just boiled over and not want to deal with other's you-know-what, and those two ideas are right off the top of my head.
Mirsellus 25th Jan 2017, 1:46 PM edit delete reply
I once played a character that was quite beloved by the party, 'Geist' did her hardest to keep the party alive at all times, often sacrificing her own wealth to help them, and using several of her feats to craft them magic items. Most of her spells were even buff spells, she had little to no offensive capabilities.

This one time she talked a powerful fire elemental out of murdering the party by promising to use plane shift to send it home, though the casting time was a few rounds and it got impatient... So she sent it to the elemental plane of water instead... that sure surprised the 'good' party and all the players as well.

"Geist only goal is to be loved and have friends... she will literally do anything to maintain this... she's not a good person." I said to their aghast faces. Over the next few games they unwrapped Geist and discovered that she was a Undead Illusionist who worshipped a goddess of eternal love. Also she spent her free time killing off isolated villages for the souls and lifeforce to make them 'presents'(Magical Gear). The other players were shocked, and no longer believe anything I say.
Dusk Raven 26th Jan 2017, 2:48 AM edit delete reply
@Mirsellus - how'd that little revelation affect her status of "loved and has friends?"
RHJunior 2nd Feb 2017, 9:39 PM edit delete reply
Remember.... Adolf Hitler loved animals, and was quite good with small children. And in the end, boiled down, his goal was to bring about a golden age for all humanity-- a reich that would last a thousand years. That's what makes evil so terrifying and the alignment system so controversial--- we humans are foolish enough to imagine that evil is Snidely Whiplash, running about kicking puppies just for the fun of it-- when in reality it's more often the most noble of goals pursued with the best of intentions.... but with utter disregard to the moral nature of the means used.
Dusk Raven 24th Jan 2017, 8:19 PM edit delete reply
I was like, "We went over this in session one, DM!"

Speaking of alignment systems, one that I tinker with is vaguely based off my memories of morality from the demo of Galactic Civilizations: There are "Pure" Good and Evil, as well as neutral, but there are also "Chaotic" Good and Evil, in either case meaning they'll typically do good or evil things but will do evil or good things if it really benefits them, respectively.

Mind you, I don't feel D&D's alignment system is a good way to characterize actual motivations in anything but a caricature...
Digo Dragon 25th Jan 2017, 6:28 AM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
I dislike D&D's alignment system so much that I changed those "Protection From Good/Evil" spells to just "Protection from Hostility" and the Paladin's "Detect Evil" is instead "Detect Hostiles". It's a lot smaller of a headache that way.

Dusk Raven 25th Jan 2017, 6:44 AM edit delete reply
I did something similar (based loosely on 3.5's own Heroes of Horror supplement, if I recall correctly), where "Detect Good/Evil" was "Detect Benevolent/Malevolent Intent." Thus, the latter will detect a bandit about to ambush you and rob you, but it won't detect an evil lich overlord trying to buy a present for his adopted daughter.

The "protection" spells, meanwhile, are a little more setting-specific, divided according to their divine provider. So far I've got "Divine Protection" (works against Demons, Devils, and other evil outsiders allied with them, and undead, and any divine casters who worship them), "Nature's Protection" (works against Undead, Aberrations, and Constructs), and I'm going to try to make more depending on the various factions in my setting.
Masterweaver 24th Jan 2017, 6:26 AM edit delete reply
Masterweaver
Yeah, the new alignment system is a little limited, but chaotic evil does fit Spectrum Runner. Fluttershy was basically Rainbow's Morality Pet for a while there.
Michaela 24th Jan 2017, 12:18 PM edit delete reply
oh wow. where did that phrase come from? and why can't I be someone's 'Morality Pet'?
Freelance 24th Jan 2017, 12:56 PM edit delete reply
From here:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoralityPet
Gindranis 25th Jan 2017, 3:20 AM edit delete reply
@Freelance.
you know you have now sent me on a 2hour tvtrope binge that will end with me having no idea how i got there in the first place.
Freelance 25th Jan 2017, 4:44 PM edit delete reply
There's a page for that, too: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/main/tvtropeswillruinyourlife

Mwahahahahaaaaa!
Winged Cat 24th Jan 2017, 3:35 PM edit delete reply
Winged Cat
@Michaela: It's theoretically possible - but you'd almost certainly need to know that other person, and they know you, a lot better than just "someone".

@Gindranis: That's TV Tropes for you. Beware, retroactively?
Specter 24th Jan 2017, 6:26 AM edit delete reply
Specter
"Oh right, your chaotic evil".

I hate it when people justify a reason a player CAN'T do something. It kind of takes away a characters personality and sticks a basic generic label on them.

Besides chaotic evil can have friends, everyone should have friends (or at least some form of companionship).
Digo Dragon 24th Jan 2017, 6:55 AM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
I agree. My wife once tried out for an Earthdawn campaign, but she was driven away because her dwarf fighter tended to help others in a supporty-role way and the GM kept arguing that dwarf fighters do not take up support roles, they smash things because they're the master race in Earthdawn.

It was probably the right call to quit that group. >.>
Gden 24th Jan 2017, 10:41 PM edit delete reply
Um... what happened to "It's my character, they do whatever the fuck I want them to."
Dusk Raven 26th Jan 2017, 4:42 AM edit delete reply
The response to that, Digo - or at least my response - is "If no dwarf would be willing to support others, they could never become the master race."
Guest 24th Jan 2017, 9:05 AM edit delete reply
Well, if the character's alignment is properly classified, it should only rule out things the character wouldn't do . . .

Of course, in 4e there's only a 56% chance you actually can correctly classify your character's alignment.
Oblivious 24th Jan 2017, 10:14 AM edit delete reply
Oblivious
I don't think that was what the GM was getting at. Good and evil are things that do exist quite opening in D&D the MLP 'verse in all their cartoonish stereotyping, but there's more to it. Good and evil also has a lot to do with how self-interested a character is, and the law/chaos axis dictates how they would generally go about it. I believe what the GM here is ribbing Dashie for is not that she couldn't or wouldn't be a bully basher, but more that it's based off out-of-character knowledge and motivation. Filly Dash could easily justify it self-motivated and still be chaotic evil. That's where a GM wagging their fingers at a player saying, 'That doesn't sound like your character,' comes from. Might seem like cracking down on players, but GMs want their players to be good at their chosen role without saying, 'Screw the rules! I do what I want!' Role playing is fun, but like any game, there's rules to follow, and if you can't sell the GM on your character, you gotta put some more work into it.

Alternatively, Dashie might not be chaotic evil at this point in her life, but short version is, I think this is the GM's revenge for not reading her backstory and tossing her weight around a bit.
DeS_Tructive 25th Jan 2017, 2:36 AM edit delete reply
DeS_Tructive
I fully agree.
This is the GM subtly calling out RD for playing "themselves" instead of the character.
GW 24th Jan 2017, 2:00 PM edit delete reply
Sure, CE characters can have friends, but 4e CE is for Demons and the like (Kill everyone, destroy everything, burn whats left).
RD should be unaligned.
You could argue for Evil with her prankster (bully who laughs at her victims) ways, but she's just not nasty enough.
Boris Carlot 24th Jan 2017, 3:47 PM edit delete reply
She might just have been nicer and less selfish as a kid before Bad Stuff™ turned her CE.
Derpmind 24th Jan 2017, 6:45 AM edit delete reply
Look out! Cuteness levels are off the chart!
Winged Cat 24th Jan 2017, 11:48 AM edit delete reply
Winged Cat
Critical cuteness levels achieved! Cuteness inspiring more cuteness! Captain, we have achieved cuteicality!
Rastaba 24th Jan 2017, 6:51 AM edit delete reply
Rastaba
I'm with Pinkie! HUGS!
ANW 24th Jan 2017, 6:51 AM edit delete reply
Ah yes, the bullies.
This story time deals with the social type of game, not the dugeon exploring type.
Any good in-game bully stories.
aylatrigger 24th Jan 2017, 12:25 PM edit delete reply
I've played a few bullies before, but not usually bully victims.
...Except my first 14 clerics who were pretty much Nodwick + healing, but I was young at the time and did not have guts to stand up to my brothers' characters.
Anyway, bully-victims usually hit too close to home for me/aren't fun for me, so nowadays I generally avoid it.

Anyway, the two bullies I recall playing were definitely on the evil side. Normal evil and horribly evil.
The normal evil one was a CE Dread Pirate Ninja named Charisma. In the party she had a companion that she had brought along, a LG Aasimar...something played by another player. I forget. Anyway, Charisma had convinced her that since Charisma was 10, she needed a legal guardian to be with her. Being the normal Medieval Fantasy D&D setting, this was hogwash, but the Aasimar fell hook, line, and sinker for it. ...A slight deviation into LE, but most of the things done with it were for shits and giggles, so I think it is fine. Charisma delighted in torturing the poor woman, or just making her watch her do CE type stuff.
Of note, in the first session NPCs tried to repossess Charisma's ship. The Dread Pirate prestige class requires you having a ship to take the class, and the GM didn't actually us to have a ship. So when Charisma got down to the docks, an NPC showed an official document saying the ship was being repossessed due to late taxes. Charisma got angry at this, took out a zippo, and lit the scroll on fire. The Aasimar grabbed it and tried to put it out...and got on fire herself. Charisma didn't want her favorite toy to be destroyed, so she pushed her over into the ocean. In piranha infested waters. She came out screaming and covered in the fish. She healed herself, but that just healed her with the piranhas still stuck in her skin, just healed so they couldn't get loose even if they wanted to. So Charisma did the obvious solution. Burn the piranhas off with the zippo. She caught on fire again. Charisma pushed her over again. This continued for a bit. Eventually she was safe and piranha-less, and complaining about how she would need more therapy, and the last time with the ferrets she needed 6 months of therapy.

...Anyway, the other character is more evil than usual. And you wouldn't think she was a bully by her looks. She was wheel-chair bound, and a small little girl. 14, of course, as this was an Adeptus Evangelion game. Isleen had been a physics prodigy, and then became a pilot for a mech that could warp physics. It kind of...broke her. And she took it out on others. But usually in more manipulative, cruel ways than the classic evil words or fist fights. She would do things like use her disability to manipulate people, trip in front of them to separate them from others, and use her knowledge to fake evidence against them. In particular for the last one, she staged her own rape by the Principal of the school. I forget for what reason, but she was deliberate, crafty, and evil. Not in the take-over-the-world or make-myself-wealthy-and-powerful ways, but in that she had no care for the well being or mental health of others.
RHJunior 2nd Feb 2017, 9:40 PM edit delete reply
Piranha are freshwater fish....
Chronic Lurker 24th Jan 2017, 6:48 PM edit delete reply
....Paladin who threatened all the chaotic aligned characters and called the druid a tree-hugging hippie.
....Halfling Rogue who kept trying to murder one of the other PCs constantly.
That first session I ran was not a pleasant one for any of us. No wonder our group didn't last long. Probably for the best though. I just could not manage those two...
Kaos Dragon 24th Jan 2017, 7:30 AM edit delete reply
If a player doesn't play to their character's alignment, change the alignment! Heroes can fall, villains can be redeemed! It's just character development.
Digo Dragon 24th Jan 2017, 11:26 AM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
In D&D, I believe paladins, barbarians, druids, monks, and bards get penalized for switching alignments in specific ways (for example, barbarians must be some form of chaotic). Sadly, whenever alignment issues pop up in my game, it's never from these classes! XD
Kyman201 24th Jan 2017, 11:50 AM edit delete reply
Actually as of 4th and 5th Edition, they've gotten rid of the Alignment Restrictions. So Paladins can be any alignment of their choice, so long as they abide by their Sacred Oath.

(Admittedly, one of those Oaths is 'Bright Shiny Protect The Helpless' so it has OVERLAP with being Lawful Good)
Digo Dragon 24th Jan 2017, 1:13 PM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
Ah, that's right. I never played 4e, but I'm fairly new to 5e still so the alignment part didn't click in my mind. My statement is more 3.5 and older stuff.
ChaosStar0 24th Jan 2017, 7:56 PM edit delete reply
Barbarians and Bards can't be Lawful, Paladins can only be Lawful Good unless you take one of the variants, Druids have to be some form of Neutral, and Monks must be some form of Lawful.
Digo Dragon 25th Jan 2017, 6:32 AM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
I once had a problem player that RP'd a very Chaotic Neutral monk. Or as he put it, "Orderly Chaotic Neutral". I think the other players just abbreviated his alignment to "Awful".

I would have punished his character for not playing a lawful alignment, but the karmic backlash from dice rolls and the way events unfolded did that job way better than I, so I just rolled with it.
Toric 24th Jan 2017, 7:40 AM edit delete reply
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rainbow's character switch to "unaligned" after the first story arc?
ANW 24th Jan 2017, 8:25 AM edit delete reply
I think only Rarity did that.
Klimpaloon 24th Jan 2017, 2:37 PM edit delete reply
Even if RD did change alignment, that wouldn't effect her backstory's alignment.
Greenhornet 24th Jan 2017, 11:13 AM edit delete reply
NEWBIESPUD! Your insight on bullies is spot on; I know this PERSONALLY. Too bad the "experts" didn't talk to you before spouting advice, I've never found any of it useful because most bullies can't take a hint, even when delivered on a rock!
Dragonflight 24th Jan 2017, 11:22 AM edit delete reply
Or delivered through the back with a mechanical pencil. Yeah, I was the Designated Target for a few years. It wasn't fun.

And, of course, the teachers would always punish the victim, because the victim is usually the one protesting the loudest, and that must therefore mean they are responsible, right?
Belmontzar 24th Jan 2017, 11:50 AM edit delete reply
I dealt with them alot myself, to the point whereI became numb to it all for the most part. I got used to the pain, to the point where it tended to back fire while they tried to 'look cool and strong' by beating up the 'freaky, loner, unbeliever.' When the weakling looks up at you and asks if your done yet like its the most boring thing in the world... that kinda ruins the image.
Yeah I was that one wierd kid who was super smart, helped anyone out, got beaten up alot, and walked around following butterflies and talking to trees and birds.

There is only one instance where I.. think I snapped. Its the last day before summer, and the bullies surrounded me in the science class... everythign went dark... next thing I know Im hoping off of a table, all the bullies are on the floor, except for one who ran away screaming. We were moving so I never found out what happened that day.
Needling Haystacks 24th Jan 2017, 11:53 AM edit delete reply
I sort-of respected the bully actually willing to throw down one-on-one. I won, but declined to do any real damage and ran off before the bystanders could jump in. Others, who would only do things that, by my principles, I couldn't retaliated against, or who would only come after me in groups, I had less respect for.

'Course, said bully tried to sic his older friends after me after that... but longer legs weren't enough to keep up with me.

Long story... basically, in this one group, the adults supposed to be in control insisted the kids take charge themselves which had predictable results.

School didn't have that many actual fights, but the one I was somewhat aware of the circumstances, policy meant both parties had to be recommended for expulsion. Neither were, and the defender got a much lighter sentence. To be fair, he apparently had made a tasteless joke that the attacker took offense at, so there may have been some grounds for punishment of some sort.

Ironically, in middle school, it might have been easier on me specifically if they hadn't had that policy, as then the bullies may have physically attacked me and I could have defended myself, but for other sorts of attacks there was not much I could do on general principle so it kinda kept happening whenever there was a sub (usual teachers generally kept a lid on it).

...sorry, sore spot. Hey, I just realized I was a bit like RD back then... fast (kinda fallen out of shape since) and having to deal with bullies...
Needling Haystacks 24th Jan 2017, 11:56 AM edit delete reply
By high schoolo, in fairness, kids were too strong and could really hurt each other. Most 'fights' just consisted of people tapping each other's shoulders. I walked right between two of 'em once on the way to class (saying 'excuse me' as I did), was apparently accidentally bumped by one of them (as they ignored me after), dropping my lunchbox. I calmly picked it up and sauntered on. An onlooker later said that that was pretty cool.
Winged Cat 24th Jan 2017, 12:01 PM edit delete reply
Winged Cat
Dragonflight: of course. Those who defend themselves or others without trying to hide it must obviously be the ones who are starting trouble (and somehow suspension and/or expulsion will be taken as some sort of punishment to make them stop doing it), because the ones who they claim are hiding it weren't seen doing anything, regardless of any and all other evidence.
Digo Dragon 24th Jan 2017, 1:16 PM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
I hated that policy. I remember times where I witnessed a victim defend themselves and go up to the teacher/admin to give my side of the story to defend the victim. Rarely overturned detentions/suspensions, but dang it, I kept on looking out for my friends!
aerion111 24th Jan 2017, 1:43 PM edit delete reply
aerion111
A big 'clue' to the behavior of bullies is that those with power DON'T give it up. Can't, willingly, in most cases.
Which means once you become a bully, you're kinda compelled to keep the power.
Do ya know how you keep power when someone's openly not following you? You break them down and/or convince them to change. At the very least, you have to ruin their reputation.
Doesn't even have to be mean - children ARE mean, by nature, generally so usually you just get bullies.
But at older ages, the same exact compulsions and temptations come into play when you try to stand against decent people with a bit of power.
Winged Cat 24th Jan 2017, 3:42 PM edit delete reply
Winged Cat
I get that but at the same time it feels a bit weird to me.

I mean, I've had power, and I've given it up willingly when keeping the power got in the way of what I wanted to do.

I have to keep telling myself that many of those in power don't notice the costs of keeping their power even when those costs rise to blatant-to-outsiders levels.

(Granted, in many cases once you have power there's little cost to keeping it, or you can change how you hold power to reduce the costs. But that's not every case.)
Digo Dragon 25th Jan 2017, 6:34 AM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
I like power, but dislike the responsibility that usually comes with it. I have in the past curbed my own power just to have less things I have to do. XD
Needling Haystacks 25th Jan 2017, 1:16 PM edit delete reply
Power is stressful if you actually care about the people under you. Get enough of it, and it is even if you don't. The President has secret service following him/her around for the rest of his life! Not to mention media following you around. I wouldn't think it worth giving up any real privacy, personally. Much better to be the "advisor" to someone who takes your advice... Muahahahaha. :P
Nickel Storm 24th Jan 2017, 11:39 AM edit delete reply
Chaotic Evil could explain why she was kicked out of flight school.
Bezerker21 24th Jan 2017, 5:05 PM edit delete reply
Huh. Seens you hit pretty close to home for a lot of people
Someone 25th Jan 2017, 5:56 AM edit delete reply
It's Rainbow's Clarkening.
Someone 25th Jan 2017, 5:56 AM edit delete reply
It's Rainbow's Clarkening.
SqueezeMeNow 25th Jan 2017, 10:58 AM edit delete reply
Speaking from personal experience, even if a bully wins a fight they won't want another one if you bloody their nose hard enough. Bullies are cowards.