Page 406 - Trust Fall

22nd Feb 2014, 6:00 AM
Trust Fall
Average Rating: 5 (3 votes)
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Author Notes:

Newbiespud 22nd Feb 2014, 6:00 AM edit delete
Newbiespud
"Am I willing to put my character's life in the hands of DM fiat," is, in some ways, a question of faith.

...There, that should trigger some knee-jerk reactions.

73 Comments:

Specter 22nd Feb 2014, 6:09 AM edit delete reply
My faith in a just DM died before I was even born.
T 22nd Feb 2014, 5:29 PM edit delete reply
What if the GM were Pinkie Pie?
Specter 22nd Feb 2014, 9:46 PM edit delete reply
If I can't even trust my own dad (Played original DnD), then who can I trust?
sjosten 22nd Feb 2014, 11:29 PM edit delete reply
As someone who's played with both their parents as GMs, the answer is definitely not your mom. In fact, she's probably worse. (Dad's a railroader, Mom's a playerkiller with blessed dice)
Specter 22nd Feb 2014, 11:51 PM edit delete reply
I... don't even know why I'm even commenting on this one. I only played with my dad DMing once (I was luckier then hell, since MY TEAM SPLIT FROM ME and I had to fight like three skeletons and two orcs simultaneously, while other company chased a black dragon as it flew away. (Funny enough, it was a one shot, and my dad rolled to see what our futures would hold. I would become a just ruler who held no equal in battle, and the others would become the dragons play things. Sucks to be them.))
Luna 23rd Feb 2014, 3:58 AM edit delete reply
Reading this arc, I can't help but feel that all in all, Pinkie Pie is a bad DM (sorry, PPPM). In my opinion, both as a player and DM, a DM should be neither an ennemy or an ally. Or, at least, if you're going to fudge the result in favor of your player, don't be so blatant about it. I don't like when players sees the DM as one who will do his/her utmost to kill their characters, but I dislike just as much when players sees the DM as someone who will do their utmost to save them from the direst situation ever.

Balance in everything. And chaos all over the place. :]
T 23rd Feb 2014, 8:50 AM edit delete reply
What if that is not DM Pinkie Pie being an unbalanced DM but Pinkie Pie character being Pinkie Pie?

Anyway she was just a DM substitute that used original's DM annotations without paying much attention causing things to go really bad. Now she is just trying to fix all the crap.
Joural 23rd Feb 2014, 9:01 AM edit delete reply
Yeah, I'm with him. I've been in campaigns where things went bad solely because the DM screwed up a CR for an encounter, and the DM used all his number-fudging prowess to get us out of it, because HE screwed up, not us. The DM should neither try to keep you alive nor kill you, but if he screws up, it's up to him to fix it.
Codeman 23rd Feb 2014, 11:53 AM edit delete reply
Yeah I admit to quite a few times when I accidentally made the CR too high, or just made it higher expecting players to be able to handle it. At that point I try to help them out, because I don't want to kill them for a mistake I made.

If a players going to die (in one of my games) it had better be because;

A: They did something stupid or screwed up.
B: They were willing to sacrifice themselves.
C: They died in what was an epic fight.

In any case if a players gonna die, it had better be a glorious and good death.
Digo 23rd Feb 2014, 4:49 PM edit delete reply
A is the usual cause of death in my games. Sometimes B.
Mr Cartier 24th Feb 2014, 5:44 AM edit delete reply
What if is all of the above?

Like the party did something stupid, wich leads to at least one person has to do the ultimate sacrifice so the rest gets to escape, and it is guaranteed to be a fight of an epic scale for the one(s) that remain?
silvadel 24th Feb 2014, 9:05 PM edit delete reply
What I hated was save or die. I had cold dice at the very worst times. Plus natural 1s. Okay you need a 5 to save against the acid... um 1. Okay -- that means you roll for your items... Okay armor 3, (dissolves), wand 5 (dissolves), okay -- spellbooks are special -- you only need to roll a 2 to save -- um 1. Sorry...

In that campaign every item on me including the spellbook was destroyed three times. The party stopped outfitting me.
Jennifer 22nd Feb 2014, 6:17 AM edit delete reply
Huh, I never noticed those cracks in the cliff before.

Faith in the DM, instead of faith in ... Pinkie Pie? Fate? Celestia? Much better, from the perception of a skeptic. It's EASY to have "faith" in a friend who you've known for some time and who you know has your best interests in mind.
zimmerwald1915 22nd Feb 2014, 6:36 AM edit delete reply
That's all well and good for a home game, but there are people who play organized campaigns. And it's much more difficult to put your PC's life in the hands of someone who's probably a total stranger or at best a casual acquaintance. On the other side of the coin, it can difficult not to take it personally as an organized play GM when your players either tiptoe around you or flare up at the slightest hint of adversity.
you know that guy 22nd Feb 2014, 7:11 AM edit delete reply
Don't play with people who aren't fun to play with.
ANW 22nd Feb 2014, 7:13 AM edit delete reply
Well, you guys voted, and I'm sorry NewbieSpud, but they chosen Applejack.
But do you really think she would be the bottom of the barrel compared to the other carhters. I didn't think so.
Celestia, Babs Seed, and now AJ.
Time for next one.
Least favorite one-time angstonest.
Me: The flim-flam brothers.
P.s. this was all done on a tablet. Harder than you think.
FanOfMostEverything 22nd Feb 2014, 7:32 AM edit delete reply
I think it would be best if you ceased and desisted with "worst pony" polls. No one wins, not even the winner.
LoganAura 22nd Feb 2014, 7:34 AM edit delete reply
LoganAura
Yeah, not answerin' a "Worst pone" question
Specter 22nd Feb 2014, 8:21 AM edit delete reply
A tablet!? Really? Dang, that's better than me using my phone some days. Also, my own OC for the answer. (Who can you hate more then yourself?)
JR Klein 22nd Feb 2014, 8:28 AM edit delete reply
Agreed.
AlternateUniverse!Zuche 22nd Feb 2014, 9:50 AM edit delete reply
ANW is worst pone.
Summoned Singer 22nd Feb 2014, 9:54 AM edit delete reply
Summoned Singer
Agreed, I'm nope nope nopeing out of this polling conundrum.
Venellian 22nd Feb 2014, 10:07 AM edit delete reply
Who, exactly, are the one-time antagonists? Discord was one-time once, and Scootaloo's doubt was primarily only shown in one episode. Of course, even the mane 6 have been antagonists at some point. Would the three-headed dog be considered one or not? He's not actually a villain.
Tatsurou 22nd Feb 2014, 10:51 AM edit delete reply
Tatsurou
I agree. Stop these worst polls. It was an interesting concept, but it's gone too far. Everyone knows that everyone's opinions on who's best are different. But someone seeing one of their favorites on a worst list will just piss them off.
Specter 22nd Feb 2014, 11:10 AM edit delete reply
Yeah, it's too bad we didn't have a question like, "If you were in Equestria (In pony form of course) and you had found a place to live there, where and why?" or something like that.
Raxon 22nd Feb 2014, 11:28 AM edit delete reply
Raxon
Bad ANW! Bad! Didn't you learn last time?

I am disappointed.
kriss1989 22nd Feb 2014, 12:24 PM edit delete reply
kriss1989
I would have voted Mare-Do-Well, but I'm instead going to cave into mob peer pressure. How dare you make a completely silly an pointless poll that people have to participate in only if they want to and otherwise can completely ignore it and the results talking about fictional characters. This is such an evil thing that we must go out of our way to publicly humiliate you, call you an antagonist, and mock you from behind the mask of anonymity, just like everyone's favorite episode taught us... OH WAIT.

Seriously guys, stop. Mare-Do-Well, because she actually won in the end and her poisoned moral was presented as correct.
Derpmind 22nd Feb 2014, 12:30 PM edit delete reply
This isn't its own sectioned-off section, this is sharing the same space that everyone who is a regular commenter here uses. It's one thing to stay away from some webpage or other, but when it's right in the middle of everything else it's hard to just ignore it.
redwings1340 22nd Feb 2014, 4:26 PM edit delete reply
redwings1340
Are we actually getting upset with the results, or are we just thinking that everyone's upset with the results here?

I personally love Celestia and have no idea how she lost to Cadence, and don't really consider Babs Seed to be a full member of the CMC (although I do see the argument for it, since she is technically one).

Still, I understand that this is just a poll, and I think the fact that we can debate about this and highlight good points as well as bad points in our discussions about the worst characters is a tribute to the show itself. I love Celestia, Babs Seed, and AJ. I think two of the three choices are reasonable (and again, it's democracy, I have nothing against anyone who hates the solar empire). Just because somepony is voted on to be worst does not mean that pony is bad. Also, since we aren't voting on actual people, I'm ok with saying an imaginary character is perceived to be worse than others.

Basically, I was on the fence with this idea at first, but I like it now. Weird that everypony else is feeling the other way.

As for my vote, I'll go with the group of male dragons from Dragon Quest. I suppose they served their purpose in contrasting themselves to Spike, but they could have been explored a bit more deeply. If I can't vote for a group of characters, I'll instead vote for the leader of that group. The fact that I can't remember his name kind of supports my vote.
Raxon 22nd Feb 2014, 8:19 PM edit delete reply
Raxon
Well, either way, if Spud says no, I think it best to hold off on the negative stuff. After all, it is his comic, and I'm pretty sure he can delete any post he likes. Fair warning.
Specter 22nd Feb 2014, 9:47 PM edit delete reply
He can? (swivels eyes around in fear)
Raxon 22nd Feb 2014, 10:56 PM edit delete reply
Raxon
Yeah. He's never deleted one of mine, though. He knows who's really in charge around here.
Specter 22nd Feb 2014, 11:12 PM edit delete reply
I would guess... him. Since he is the one who is actually making the comic, and without him, none of us would have ever met or found out how many of us care for ponies and adventure in dungeons for dragons. So... yeah.
sjosten 22nd Feb 2014, 11:31 PM edit delete reply
Gilda. She was just shallow. I mean, even Lightning Dust had more characterization, and she was nigh homicidal.
guest 23rd Feb 2014, 1:30 PM edit delete reply
I choose to misinterpret, and blatantly substitute words of this pole... The worst antagonist was Cheese Sandwich, He didn't even try to hurt any of the ponies, and did an even worse job of succeeding, making him a complete failure as an antagonist, worse, he even helped all the ponies, and gave them a good time. He might as well have been a guest star XP
Subspace_Lani 23rd Feb 2014, 11:36 PM edit delete reply
Please stop. I don't want to answer this anymore.
Digo 22nd Feb 2014, 7:33 AM edit delete reply
My players know better than to put any faith of their character's lives in my hands. They'll live, sure, but they'll take some rather painful damage to their ego, pride, and sense of decency.
Specter 22nd Feb 2014, 8:22 AM edit delete reply
If it's to survive, I might throw my team under the bus since I seem to have that kind of luck and genetic make-up.
Digo 22nd Feb 2014, 11:22 AM edit delete reply
I once had a character who was literally thrown under a bus by another PC. Nothing as worrying as watching the GM go through the book thinking 'How much damage is this bus going to do?'

Specter 22nd Feb 2014, 9:48 PM edit delete reply
... Uhh, ?d? per a time hit?
Digo 23rd Feb 2014, 4:52 PM edit delete reply
I don't remember the details of the damage, but I wrote up a new character next session, so it's probably safe to say he didn't survive.
Joural 23rd Feb 2014, 9:06 AM edit delete reply
In pathfinder, there's a book that contains all kinds of boat-related statistics. Among them is ramming damage.

... our thief jumped into the water to try and climb aboard a boat heading towards us full speed. I still have no idea how he pulled it off, because we were first level, and the damage is 8d8
Von 22nd Feb 2014, 7:34 AM edit delete reply
There were times I'd give my players a little saving nudge here and there if bad rolls and and unexpected circumstances seemed to be conspiring to destroy them. Its not just the encounters, its the campaign. No one wants to wipe on a pack of dire wolves rolled on the encounter table.

Now that said, if you forget to put on water-breathing, endure elements, freedom of movement, and other basic survival spells while entering the half frozen cave of a white dragon full of underground lakes, screw you guys, its your own darn fault you need to pay to have the paladin, wizard, and ninja resurrected.
Digo 22nd Feb 2014, 11:24 AM edit delete reply
Yeah, I had two players walk into a white dragon cave to catch a villain, knowing full well that the dragon would eat them both without hesitation.

So when the dragon showed up, there was no mercy... but just enough leftover flesh for a Resurrection...
DracoS 22nd Feb 2014, 9:29 AM edit delete reply
I have trouble believing GMs feel bad about killing characters when they're smiling the whole time.
Digo 22nd Feb 2014, 11:26 AM edit delete reply
As an experienced DM, that's usually true. I say usually because if it's death from something completely uncontrolled like a bad die roll that can't be fudged... I'll feel a bit bad and try to find a way to get them back into the game as quick as possible.

But 99% of the time the PC's own hubris does them in so... laughing all the way there.
Pierzstyx 22nd Feb 2014, 2:16 PM edit delete reply
It can be fun. But I usually like to screw them in some life-altering way myself. For instance I was running a Fallout campaign and had a guy get caught in an atomic blast. His survival roll was a natural 1. Total botch. Instead of killing him outright though I turned him into a feral ghoul and made the players choose to either risk their lives by trying to save him and reduce his rads so he could regain sanity, or shoot him and put him out of his misery. That brought way more satisfaction than just killing him.
Digo 22nd Feb 2014, 5:35 PM edit delete reply
In an encounter with an elder black ooze, the party's Warlock was killed and mostly dissolved. The PCs put his remains in a little box to resurrect him later. Until then, the player made a new character to join the team.

Well, the new PC fit int the team so well that everyone forgot the dead warlock and eventually forgot where they left the box. 7 levels gained later, the BBEG of the campaign resurrected the warlock as one of his own minions and managed to kill the party's druid.

Crowning moment of Evil right there.
Thud 22nd Feb 2014, 10:05 AM edit delete reply
Oh we don't feel bad when PCs die. We just prefer when they die because of an encounter that we set up rather than some random filler fight like wolves.
curb 22nd Feb 2014, 10:52 AM edit delete reply
Faith in the GM...not for a while...

First GM had a tendency to try to kill us, didn't even try to hide the fact that he was doing all he was doing to kill us.

Second GM, just as bad as the first, but we found ways to survive, like knowing the starting gear lists so he couldn't short us on gear and supplies.

Most recent GM, pretty decent, kept the group moving, punished cheaters and idiots.

Current GM, haven't played yet, a good friend, knows we'll call him on bull crap...
Curb 22nd Feb 2014, 11:01 AM edit delete reply
Oh, update on the Pathfinder group, the non-pony one.

We have a sorcerrer(race still up in the air) with the dragon bloodline who is gonna be played as a hobble mage, most of his spells will be aimed at screwing with the enemy, lots of acid spells as well.

I will be playing a female gnome fighter. I chose to arm her with a scythe, love the trip ability on it. Since we haven't finalized anything, no one knows I've named her Nickle Gizmo.

Not sure what the other party member will be, most likely anything that can be used as a tank, it fits his style of play.
Raxon 22nd Feb 2014, 11:25 AM edit delete reply
Raxon
Rarely have I had a GM outright lie to me.

That said, if you can trust the GM, and you're playing paranoia, both of you are doing it wrong.
Malroth 23rd Feb 2014, 12:11 AM edit delete reply
**THAT STATEMENT SHOWED A INSUFFICIENT QUANTITY OF BELIEF IN FRIEND COMPUTER INDICATIVE OF COMMUNIST TENDANCIES PLEASE REPORT TO YOUR NEAREST TERMINATION BOOTH AND HAVE A NICE DAY**
Specter 23rd Feb 2014, 1:50 PM edit delete reply
(Termination Booth) Sorry, but I appear to be out of order, please report this to nearest repair station, and have a nice day. (I have never played paranoia, and never took the time to find it. Sounds suspiciously like "Saga"(The book)though.)
Raxon 24th Feb 2014, 12:40 AM edit delete reply
Raxon
Basically, the goal is to betray everyone and stab them in the back for personal gain while not violating the rules.

The rules are secret though, so you don't know what is illegal and what isn't. Like hunger games, but with an insane, murderous referee who keeps rewriting the rules. It's set in a dystopian future. It is so much fun.
Specter 24th Feb 2014, 6:02 PM edit delete reply
That much I know, basically a giant paranoid game of last man standing. but more murderous and frustrating or something.
aylatrigger 22nd Feb 2014, 11:36 AM edit delete reply
aylatrigger
As a DM, I am pretty trustworthy when I tell my players I will be. I try not to kill the characters unless they are suicidal due to idiocy or silliness. Sometimes the dice roll against them though, and bad things happen. But I am generally pretty trustworthy.

As a player...never trust the DM. Too many of my friends who have DMed or GMed are Killer DM/GMs. And especially don't trust them when they are telling you to trust them.
kriss1989 22nd Feb 2014, 11:57 AM edit delete reply
kriss1989
I am the DM. My players learned that my wrath is severe, my mercy rare, and my sadism unsatisfyable. But I'm not evil or unfair, I give them a fair shot.
Super Kami Guru 23rd Feb 2014, 11:51 PM edit delete reply
That sounds like the perfect description for Dark Souls. Which I finally managed to beat today. *Sighs heavily* I'm not quite sure what to make of it. Overwhelming satisfaction to be sure.
kriss1989 24th Feb 2014, 7:35 AM edit delete reply
kriss1989
Thank you!
Specter 24th Feb 2014, 6:04 PM edit delete reply
If your fair, go on.

Other guy whose name is probably an anime name, dark souls 2 is coming out. Good luck.
Altessia 22nd Feb 2014, 12:44 PM edit delete reply
I've grown up with amazing, non-killing DMs... Though my first was my dad, so my characters in those campaigns tended to survive unscathed anyways. Some; "You all wake up" moments occurred though, stupid opposite alignment helmet >.>
Satyrwyld 22nd Feb 2014, 2:34 PM edit delete reply
My NPCs will lie, cheat and steal ruthlessly. However, if I'm going to maintain my integrity as a DM, I am completely forthright in my descriptions and conduct. If there's a die roll involved, I break down the math for them. Then, after they commit to a course of action, I point out they forgot to ask about something rather important and cackle madly as their own actions end up undoing them. Why take pleasure in my own encounters crushing them when I can watch them self-destruct while trying to help them not to the whole time?
Anon 22nd Feb 2014, 8:36 PM edit delete reply
We subscribe to the adsge, "Never trust a smiling GM".

Our GM actually wears that shirt. Draw what conclusions you will.
Digo 23rd Feb 2014, 4:53 PM edit delete reply
Whenever I ran a D&D game, I wore my shirt that says "I Roll Twenties."
Disloyal Subject 22nd Feb 2014, 9:22 PM edit delete reply
Trust is always a risk. Taking risks for your friends and/or for happiness is half of what life's about!
As a DM, I'm... fair-ish. I like to throw dangerous encounters at them, so I let the characters be crazy powerful just to keep up with being PCs in a world where there are no NPC classes. I'll fudge the numbers a bit if it looks like I misbalanced something, or add deus ex machinas if the dice screw them or they come up with something hilariously awesome, but for the most part I stick to polishing my lovely railroads and adding scenery for the inevitable jumping of the tracks. Half the fun is letting player choice and the will of the dice lead us where they may... though I do have most monsters take prisoners when possible. Eventually I'll get a party that's happy being hobgoblins' slaves and earn their way up the ranks instead of rebelling.
Walabio 22nd Feb 2014, 9:52 PM edit delete reply
ยกTwilightTime!:

youtube.com/watch?v=CkR2eiBf4hw
Disloyal Subject 24th Feb 2014, 9:12 PM edit delete reply
The link; 'tis dead.
Someone impersonating Hasbro seems to have had YouTube kill it.
Vegetalss4 24th Feb 2014, 1:17 AM edit delete reply
I have faith in my GMs, and trust him to be good GMs who provide good fun games.
Thus I trust them to let characters die should they need fiat to live.

Hows that for a knee-jerk reaction
Newbiespud 24th Feb 2014, 6:25 AM edit delete reply
Newbiespud
(D-)

SEE ME AFTER CLASS
Mandolin 24th Feb 2014, 12:24 PM edit delete reply
It really, really depends on the situation.

Most of the time, the answer is "No."

But if my success against ridiculous odds means the DM gets to screw over another player who's been getting on his nerves?

...Maybe.
kriss1989 25th Feb 2014, 5:37 AM edit delete reply
kriss1989
The update is late! Everyone run around screaming in panic, it's our only chance.
Norakos 2nd Apr 2014, 12:44 PM edit delete reply
Many a GM have used me as a giant plot device. Sometimes, this is awesome and I get a plot bow of demon-slaying. (Look up bow of dragon's sorrows.)

Other times... well, lets just say my characters tend to get possessed a lot.