Page 1512 - Channel Change

25th Mar 2021, 6:00 AM in A Canterlot Wedding, Part 2
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Channel Change
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Newbiespud 25th Mar 2021, 6:00 AM edit delete
Newbiespud
Whoops, who put this fourth wall here?
(Pop-out)

44 Comments:

kayom 25th Mar 2021, 6:02 AM edit delete reply
Well a prestige drama can <i>be</i> very cartoony if you play it right. I'm thinking of The Great here. It is the nearest thing to a live action cartoon on tv right now.
Freelance 26th Mar 2021, 5:56 PM edit delete reply
First show I thought of was Avatar: The Last Airbender.
Cygnia 25th Mar 2021, 6:06 AM edit delete reply
We were always partial to the Diniverse -- Four Color with a hint of Grit.
Gray 25th Mar 2021, 11:54 PM edit delete reply
You know, I don't think I've ever heard anyone describe the Diniverse quite that well in under ten words.
Digo 25th Mar 2021, 6:11 AM edit delete reply
What the GM wants: Star Trek Discovery
What the Players want: Star Trek Lower Decks

I think one option is for the GM to be a player with this group and let someone else run a few adventures. Give the GM some new experiences to work with.
Guest 25th Mar 2021, 6:18 AM edit delete reply
I wouldn't be surprised if that's what leads to Starlight Glimmer's introduction.
Space Jawa 25th Mar 2021, 6:25 AM edit delete reply
Alternatively:

What the GM wants: Sonic SatAM
What the Players want: Sonic Boom
RuBoo 25th Mar 2021, 6:30 AM edit delete reply
...Why would the players want Sonic Boom over Sonic SatAM?
RuneKnight3 25th Mar 2021, 8:10 AM edit delete reply
Why would any player want Star Trek Discovery or Star Trek Lower Decks for that matter!?
Digo 25th Mar 2021, 8:18 AM edit delete reply
Because everyone has different tastes in entertainment and it doesn't revolve around any one person's opinion.

That is part of what Cadence is alluding too.
BunBun299 25th Mar 2021, 8:24 PM edit delete reply
BunBun299
Wanting Star Trek Discovery or Star Trek Lower Decks is evidence of a complete lack of taste.
MiqoRems 25th Mar 2021, 10:45 PM edit delete reply
We're reading a webcomic about a world of sentient ponies being played via *FOURTH EDITION* d&d, I don't think anybody here gets to talk about 'taste'.
Gray 25th Mar 2021, 11:54 PM edit delete reply
I mean, I don't think this webcomic qualifies as an example of bad taste. Maybe unusual taste, or very specific taste, but not bad taste.
Eroraf 25th Mar 2021, 2:03 PM edit delete reply
Why would grown men want pastel horses over giant mechs?
Nebulous 25th Mar 2021, 6:41 PM edit delete reply
Giant pastel mecha horses for the win!!!
Khyrin 25th Mar 2021, 7:51 PM edit delete reply
GIant pastel mecha-horses piloted by a team of smaller-but-still-quite-large pastel mecha-horses, who in turn are piloted by cat-sized pastel non-mecha-horses who love to cuddle.

Row Row! Fight the power!
Luminous Lead 29th Mar 2021, 11:38 AM edit delete reply
Sonic Boom has jokes and is surprisingly charming, while Sonic SatAM had a much grimmer atmosphere. Both can be really fun, but some people like one more than the other.
ANW 25th Mar 2021, 8:25 AM edit delete reply
GM wants:most Final Fantasy games
Players:Yo-Kia Watch
Malroth 26th Mar 2021, 6:15 PM edit delete reply
Malroth
Players Want: Most final fantasy games.
GM wants: Xenosaga
CharginChuck 25th Mar 2021, 5:06 PM edit delete reply
CharginChuck
GM wants: American Horror Story
Players want: Scooby-Doo
Deadpool 25th Mar 2021, 6:45 AM edit delete reply
That was me, sorry! [removes fourth wall]
Keybounce 29th Mar 2021, 12:47 AM edit delete reply
... Perfect response, thank you.
A Hat Inside A Small Hat 25th Mar 2021, 10:08 AM edit delete reply
Feels kinda like how FiM started to veer in the last few seasons imo.

The writers started giving more and more to the more adult fans and it started to detract from the reasons a lot of people got into the show in the first place. Where the original appeal was something more cartoony, but still with good lessons and interesting characters, started becoming worldbuilding, increasing stakes, worldbuilding, questionable morals, worldbuilding, focus on characters people had way too many issues with, worldbuilding, etc.

Like, look at episodes like Slice of Life from S5 and Fame and Misfortune. Both of them are heavily coated with metacommentary about the fanbase which, if you're deep into that, you'd love it. But for kids, the general intended audience of the show, it bores the heck out of them. They usually DON'T know all of the fandom metajokes and so they have nothing to latch onto.

More to the point, the players want, something a little lighter, something that isn't always "X villain wants pure destruction of the world" or "x thing will destroy everyone", which is fair because a villain who seemingly always has an out is a little tiring and makes players feel like their choices don't matter. At the same time, the players could be a little more mindful of the DM. I know encouraging freedom and changing course is part of the experience of D&D, but I would be getting a little frustrated if my players essentially wiped my slate clean of plans every single session and having to scrounge to fix everything the next time around.
Space Jawa 25th Mar 2021, 3:23 PM edit delete reply
The "Slice of Life" 100th Episode was a big thing for me, yeah.

I recognize that they were trying to play to the adult fans who helped make the series as big a deal as it was, but for me, the episode fell flat, didn't appeal to me at all, and I thought they were trying too hard.

It's probably not a coincidence that I pretty much fell away from the show entirely right about that time and never really watched it again after that. If it weren't for Spud's Friendship is Dragons comic and his discord group, I probably would have lost all connection to the series years ago.
Newbiespud 25th Mar 2021, 6:02 PM edit delete reply
Newbiespud
Aww, I liked Slice of Life a lot.
Brigid 26th Apr 2021, 5:46 PM edit delete reply
I liked Slice of Life, too! And the later seasons. There were episodes that fell a little flat, but the early seasons often felt a little... inconsistent. Like they weren't quite sure what they were doing or where they were going. Which is normal when a show is just starting out. I can see how fans might not like the last season, but I thought it was a good way of diversifying the cast and showing how they could pass the lessons on to the next generation.
redwings1340 25th Mar 2021, 9:56 PM edit delete reply
redwings1340
I liked Slice of Life, personally, but the series did get worse over the last few seasons. I'm not entirely sure what happened, but the writing just got... boring. Characters became more tropeish, they had characters keep learning the same lessons, and I never really got as attached to the new characters. I like some of the overall plans they had on moving the series forward, I think it would have gotten pretty stale if they hadn't taken steps like making Twilight a princess and establishing the school of friendship, but their execution with it was not the best. The show also became a parody of itself at times, the entire plot around the school of magic was basically one long, extended pun on 'Friendship is magic', with little nuance on why. The entire plot of keeping friendship out of non pony hands for fear they'll weaponize it against ponies was just kinda dumb.

From my perspective the main issue with the last few seasons was just plain kinda bad, uninspired writing. I still haven't finished the last season of the show, watching a lot of the last few seasons was kinda painful.
Ransom4 25th Mar 2021, 10:18 PM edit delete reply
Ransom4
Okay...this is a tad weird because I almost wrote the same post...but exactly the opposite? I felt like they ignored a lot of the lore and world building that drew me in during season 1 for the most part...but in hindsight it was probably more that they added a whole bunch of things on top of the unanswered promise from the beginning of the series. Most of this revolved around the Royal Sisters backstory, but also the Crystal Empire and Cadance. It just seems like even when they finally started giving us Celestia episodes they never went into things like where the Alicorns first came from, how the Sisters came to power (beyond the Journal), how much Celestia knew about Twilight’s destiny, etc. I mean, when they gave the origin of the Tree of Harmony, they seemingly rendered the sisters completely irrelevant to its origins and purpose, despite the Sun and Moon being on the trunk leading up to Twilight’s mark. And in the end they just...quit. I needed something beyond them wanting to retire.

Sorry, I’m ranting. I guess it just seems odd because to me it wasn’t so much that they did too much worldbuilding as much as they didn’t follow up on the worldbuilding Faust did in the first 2 seasons.

I will say I usually don’t care for fandom references, but Slice of Life was fun, especially as a one off thing.
Gray 25th Mar 2021, 11:52 PM edit delete reply
Did kids honestly get bored by Slice of Life? I remember being a kid and watching Rocko's Modern Life, and that show went over my young head with shocking frequency. Still enjoyed the show, y'know? Kinda feel like kids are willing to roll with a lot.
Tempestfury 26th Mar 2021, 5:30 AM edit delete reply
Seems to me that your statement is incredibly subjective. Quite a lot of people loved the later seasons, its hard to get a reading on how popular each season is and if the latter seasons were less enjoyable. They are different, I'll give you that, but I'm not sure if they are weaker.
Anvildude 25th Mar 2021, 2:43 PM edit delete reply
See, this is the bit where the DM makes a throwaway "Monster of the Week" villain, only for the players to lose to it, and the campaign suddenly turns into an intrigue-plot.
Freki-and-Gary 25th Mar 2021, 7:08 PM edit delete reply
To be fair, that does sound like an amazing idea, if it could be pulled off!
Dakkath 26th Mar 2021, 12:30 AM edit delete reply
Nice work editing out Twilight's wings in the first couple panels.
Artemis 26th Mar 2021, 2:51 AM edit delete reply
DM wants: NCIS or Law and Order to the Extreme
What the players want: Who Framed Roger Rabbit
Cliff_Robotnik 26th Mar 2021, 3:32 AM edit delete reply
This page is fairly relevant to me... As I DM cartoons, Anime at most complex, 80s/90s action cartoon at most basic.

Simply put, I do not like overarching, all consuming narratives and mystery boxes, as a sufferer of ADHD my games need to be more... Fluid then that.

And as a PC, I despise reoccurring antagonists... Simply because if they come back after our first encounter, then everything they do is now MY fault for not dealing with them before... Without exception, and the best DM in my group that's not me LOVES reoccurring antagonists and problems, and seems unable to understand my stance on that matter.

To me, as a DM, the game is a medium to allow the PCs to be powerful... I put on the angry DM facade to allow them to fully feel like they have "beaten" or "Outplanned" the DM, and all danger is an utter illusion... Tho the one player I oft mention, Dave, often notices how easy Combat is most of the time... To the point when they got a NPC party member that's a snarky kinder(Which is, in my setting, actually a Genetic mental illness that only ever strikes Gnomes, which are a hybrid specie between elves and dwarves) rogue kept bum rushing and sneaking around outside of battle maps to attack enemy mages me support, only to constantly need rescue because she is about as durable as a stark foam cup, he opted to keep her as a party member forever as it made things way more interesting for his Tryhard butt.

Conversely, this is the kind of game I WANT to be a PC in, a campaign where I can be the big damn hero, where the difficulty is either a illusion, or simply does not exist, WHere I can feel POWERFUL...

The only other DMs in my group prefer to run underdog stories where your constantly underpowered, outnumbered, and outgunned, with massive mysteries that leave me confused more then anything... Making me feel weak, and also dumb...

Which honestly leads me into feeling awful, and occasionally depressive... For me, the tabletop is for escapism, and if it is not BETTER then your actually existence,then what's the point?

Guest 26th Mar 2021, 7:17 AM edit delete reply
To provide perspective on the flipside of the coin: people like difficult games because beating them is rewarding and lets them feel like they're strong because they were presented with a genuine challenge and overcame it on their own merits. If the obstacle wasn't challenging, they question why it was there in the first place. If the main purpose of the game is to let your players win, they're often going to question why they're even trying if victory is assured. Why roll dice if the GM is going to fudge the numbers in your favor? Why think about strategy if the GM is going to accept most any idea you throw out there?

I don't mean this as a way of discounting your opinions, more just providing perspective and why your form of game would honestly be unfun for a lot of players. And I'd also say you should be 100% honest to your players about the type of campaign you want to run and the type of dangers you want to present, because it's possible your players don't like the same game as you. Or inversely, they LOVE the same game as you, and would be happier if it was out in the open. And maybe your DM can accommodate for your preferences in some way to make things more enjoyable for you, because I'm going to assume they're a decent person and would be unhappy to learn that one of their players isn't enjoying the campaign.
Void Knight 7th Apr 2021, 5:42 AM edit delete reply
And there are also drama queens, people who *love* watching their characters suffer tragic fates. You may not be one of them (neither am I, for that matter), but they do exist, and they would hate the kind of game you're describing running, because they want drama and tragic twists and cruel fate, and you aren't giving it to them.

First thing to remember about GMing: different players want different things, and none of them are "wrong" in wanting it.
Draxynnic 26th Mar 2021, 4:35 AM edit delete reply
I think Cadence-Player makes a very valid point here. The DM resisted the "use Cadence's love to rejuvenate Shining Armour so Shining Armour can activate his shield in 'repel' mode" resolution, but I'm not sure that the DM had actually planned for any sort of win condition here. Chrysalis had just made a Worf Effect out of Celestia, the Elements of Harmony were set up as being the only hope, but the only way in was packed by too many changelings to fight through, in a setup where it was evident that more changelings were just going to keep arriving. Until the players pulled a "hey, you've concocted this entire scenario on the concept of love having real power, why can't we take advantage of that too?", there wasn't really a clear path short of the PCs abandoning Canterlot and fleeing for their lives in order for the DM to run an extended arc as the party seeks the means to dislodge Chrysalis from Canterlot.

Which is not exactly a great ending for a guest appearance adventure, and it would be the exact OPPOSITE of being a palette-cleanser after the whole thing with Discord, especially when you consider that the whole "Discord turned Ponyville into his personal chaos playground" thing is still unresolved. They've already had one failure that chased them out of their home base triggering a quest to find the means to stop him. They don't need to have two of those running simultaneously.
Guest 26th Mar 2021, 7:03 AM edit delete reply
It was probably just that Chrysalis's stat block wasn't THAT dangerous and Celestia was honestly Worfed to keep the players on their toes. A 1v1 against a 1v6 is a MASSIVE difference in tabletop, though I'm not exactly familiar with 4e. And a lot of tension in tabletop is about presenting a plausible threat more than its about having a plausible threat.
Malroth 26th Mar 2021, 6:22 PM edit delete reply
Malroth
4e Is pretty much trapped by it's bounded accuracy mechanics. You have a 35%-45% chance of hitting things of equal level +/- 5% per 2 levels difference. Enemy stat blocks already assume optimal gear and buffs by the time they become relavent so even the most optimal player choice only allows them to keep on this track. If Celestia is 10 levels above the party at this point then anything that is appropiate level for celestia to fight would be hittable by the party only on natural 20s.
Tempestfury 28th Mar 2021, 8:26 AM edit delete reply
'35%-45% chance of hitting things of equal level'

Uuuuuh... no? As someone who is part of a 4E discord server, and has done a lot of talk about the back-end of the game, I can safely say that your off your % chance to hit by about 40-45%. Even without super levels of optimizaing, you'll easily be hitting more often than not, and optimization can bump it up easily to 95% chance to hit. THe +5% is more per level difference, not 2 levels difference through. So a Celestia that's 10 levels about the party would be more in line with your 35-45% chance to hit.
aylatrigger 26th Mar 2021, 9:08 PM edit delete reply
I'm used to GMing Loony Toons gone suicidal from most groups I've had being mostly Loonies.
When I try for prestige tv it can sometimes be too much, but I am more comfortable if it is broken usually.
One thing I absolutely can't GM or roleplay though is romantic comedy. Or romantic drama. Really anything romantic or sexual. I just don't understand it and can't even fake it.
Composer99 26th Mar 2021, 10:54 PM edit delete reply
I don't quite agree with the players in the top two panels.

You can have one-off villains, à la Exquisitor Vorbis from Small Gods, but lots of villains have staying power, such as Darth Vader. Imagine if the Borg had never appeared in Star Trek again after their introduction in TNG's 2nd season - what a loss that would have been!

Where I do agree with them is that even villains who stick around don't have to be unbeatable right off the bat. In fact, Chrysalis is a great example in fiction. In most of her appearances in the show, she loses. But because she survives, she continues to find a way to come back and try again. Indeed, each time she does, the challenge she poses is greater, because she learns from her defeats.

Chrysalis is a good example of a villain who, in a TTRPG such as D&D, would grow alongside the characters, as compared to other villains whom the PCs can only challenge by advancing up the character power curve.

A villain can also be defeated through the ruin or negation of their plans or schemes. The PCs can undertake such ruination reactively or even proactively. This can even work with villains that the PCs can't beat on even terms. The Discord campaign arc, had it been implemented better, could have been such a game.

Players can also proactively inflict defeats on the villains by destroying or neutralising their resources or allies, finding MacGuffins that weaken them, that sort of thing, even if they can't beat them just yet.
MythicFox 27th Mar 2021, 1:37 AM edit delete reply
This is a revelation I literally began struggling with this week in my Geist game. I literally don't know how to react to this right now, it's way too damn close.